Cardiff humiliated on final day of season as “we want you to stay” choruses still ring out.

16 Responses to Cardiff humiliated on final day of season as “we want you to stay” choruses still ring out.

1. GRAHAM says:

   May 5, 2024 at 11:11 am

   I absolutely agree with you – yet again yesterday we from the start showed “cautious, dull and regimented football” with instant passes across or back, even dangerously in our own penalty area, without bothering to even look to see if there could be a move or a pass forward .. that style of play is becoming the norm for many teams but we do it all the time – except when someone like Tanner breaks the rule and goes upfield fast. Anyway how a team plays must be down to the Manager and his coaching staff, and I wish we could and would tell Bulut to go back to Turkey – although it seems, as you say, that back home his style of play is thought too conservative.
2. Dai Woosnam says:

   May 5, 2024 at 11:58 am

   Thanks Paul for a superb, detailed account of the game, and overall summing-up of the season.
   I am amazed that there are fans who say they were 50/50 about Bulut and his dreadfully negative Bulutball. He has zero charisma, and less than zero motivational skills. And pray tell me of cases where Turkish managers have made a success of managing in the big leagues of England, Germany, Spain, Italy and France? Oh and you can throw in the leagues of the Netherlands and Portugal for good measure.

   Like Anthony (AMO) says… give the job to Ramsey… true his Arsène Wenger philosophy will initially lead to some defensive mix-ups worthy of Fred Karno’s Army, but at least he will play ATTACKING football.
   And finally Paul, I have concluded that any sum north of £750K spent on buying Phillips, is money wasted. Two mill? Forget it.
   And the goalie MUST play second fiddle to Jak.
   DW.
3. Big_Bill_Irwin_Fan says:

   May 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm

   Totally agree with your comments – I would usually say I was disappointed with the line up but yesterday I was very angry when I saw Bowler and Diédhiou starting when 2 of our younger players could have started. Why were O’Dowda and Sawyers on the bench? As usual another wasted opportunity in a meaningless game. I am losing patience with Bulut but our board have never been good at picking new managers so he might end up staying by default so we can expect more of the same from him next season. We have been lucky with our points total but might not be so lucky next season.
4. Huw Perry says:

   May 6, 2024 at 11:10 am

   Hi Paul,
   Sorry for belated reply but wanted to acknowledge your superb efforts again this season with your sharp and timely analysis of all games to keep us entertained. So many times this season your words have chimed with my thoughts and how you have kept it up to the bitter end I do not know. But many thanks to you and all regulars for contributions.
   As for the football, well what to say? Still flip flopping from should he stay / should he go? Lots of chatter online and all I know is something needs resolving asap for obvious reasons.
   Football has been turgid for months apart from the odd shaft of light provided by some golden moments and the delight at seeing some of our youngsters finally getting a chance to show what they can do. Appreciate can’t build a whole team around youth, but could be good with the right mix.
   In analysing all the stats we have been banging on about the need for a goalscorer and being more creative from open play all season and assumed our defence was reliable. Sadly, in recent weeks we have been found out there with too many goals coming from a combination of tiredness, lack of enthusiasm, poor passing, loss of control etc etc. Real concern in last month or so and much work to do there – or were our players “ on the beach” this last month?
   Whatever the reason , not a good look to secure a permanent contract judging by last couple of games.
   Anyway, glad it’s all over and fingers crossed for a summer of optimism and some hope for next year.
   Thanks again for all your hard work.
5. Blue Bayou says:

   May 6, 2024 at 11:37 pm

   I thought I’d leave it a day or so before replying to calm down a little and look at the bigger picture as I couldn’t believe our defenders that had dealt so well with aerial attacks earlier in the season when it mattered, had one of their worst games of the season when it didn’t.
   The defenders I mean are Goutas, Phillips and Romeo.
   As has already been mentioned, Tanner had possibly his best game for us at left back, and was one of the few brighter sparks in our performance.
   It didn’t start well for me when I saw that the wildly inconsistent Andy Davies was the ref. I thought then that his erratic decision-making would lead to at least one goal, and as it turned out, his poor decisions led to Rotherham’s third and fourth goals. For the penalty their striker collided with his own player first and as he was falling then fell over Phillips leg on the ground. Their fourth goal followed a blatant push in the back of Turnbull by Lee Peltier, which left Turnbull on the floor, and Rotherham able to counter-attack and score.
   Still Rotherhams win wasn’t just down to appalling ref decisions. Their front two of Jordan Hugill and Tom Eaves bossed Goutas and Phillips most of the afternoon. Every time Rotherham put a high ball into our penalty area in the second half it looked like they would score, and so they carried on doing so.
   I can only think that Goutas, Phillips and Romeo didn’t want to engage with Rotherhams direct and physical style and risk getting injured in the last game of the season that had nothing riding on it.
   It wasn’t all one way traffic tbf. Ex Cardiff shot stopper Dillon Phillips, in goal for Rotherham did what we know he can, deflecting a rasping volley from Bowler that I thought was going to rip the back of the net, and got a hand to a shot from Wintle unchallenged in their six yard box when it looked easier to score.
   Afterwards I also felt slightly better when I saw that all the teams around us before the start (Preston, Coventry, Bristol City, Watford and Swansea) also lost, some in games they would have expected much better from. So I suppose we were just part of a final day mid table team malaise.
   And I know this won’t be a popular opinion on this forum but I believe we should offer Erol a longer deal to stay.
   While I like to see attacking football, I don’t share Dai’s attack at all costs style.
   I remember seeing some wonderfully creative players in the past like Jasons Fowler and Bowen, and Danny Hill also springs to mind. Although the football was great to watch from an attacking viewpoint, we invariably conceded at least as many goals as we scored, and ended up flirting with relegation or getting relegated.
   People are entitled to their view that they’d prefer to see us simply play attacking football and get relegated. I also used to hear some fans say they wanted rid of Vincent Tan, even if it meant losing his financial support and possibly mean the club going into administration and getting relegated. I disagree with both views as the financial incentives for not getting relegated are huge, especially when the teams to be relegated from the Premier league will have a significant financial advantage against those currently in the Championship anyway.
   So far Erol has had to build a team with free transfers, loan players and cut-price players and has had to adapt accordingly.
   I believe the improvement in our league position this season means if we can really back Erol in the transfer market (a big if I know), then I believe he can take us closer to the playoffs, not automatic though as I think at least one automatic place will always go to one of the relegated clubs, as last seasons trio of relegated teams have finished in the top four this season.
6. The other Bob Wilson says:

   May 7, 2024 at 9:04 am

   Thanks all for your replies and your contributions through the season – providing there are no “sensational” developments at the club in the next few weeks. I plan to let the dust settle on 23/24 until around the end of this month and then started doing my weekly reviews through to the beginning of 24/25.
   For now though, there’s still a bit more time for some speculation about the manager and more general thoughts on our season.
   Graham, nice to hear from you again, I watched the weekly Monday night podcast presented by Steve Johnson this morning, Vince Ali was on and he said that when he went over to Turkey to watch Wales play last June, he got talking to Turkish fans about Erol Bulut and the response was that he was a defensive manager, this confirms what some in the Turkish press said about his appointment at the time. I started a thread on the nessageboard I use yesterday where I mentioned that Peterborough had six players who’d scored ten or more goals this season whereas we haven’t had that many score ten in a season in a decade! I asked how would all of those strikers that Peterborough have been able to sell on for millions in the last fifteen years or so have fared if they’d signed for us rather than them – we’ll never know for sure, but I’m pretty sure they would have found it a lot harder here because of the prevailing attitude of the club since Vincent tan’s arrival. A club like Peterborough would never have appointed Bulut, but he’s an ideal manager for a club that these days only seems to be able to win games in one way – backs to the wall, low scoring matches where the decisive goal, usually, comes from a set piece – Bulut is a defensive appointment by a defensive club.

   Dai, I’m not sure whether I put it in my Rotherham piece or it was somewhere else, but in the last few days somewhere, I’ve typed about how I think Phillips and Horvarth have both done pretty well individually, but I don’t see how there can be any argument about us being a lot more defensively secure when we had Goutas and McGuinness as centre backs and Alnwick in goal.

   BBIF, not much I can add to what you say really except to say, first, that I felt resigned rather than angry when I heard our team on Saturday because it was not a surprise. Second, the panel members on that podcast I mentioned earlier were pretty united in saying that with a couple of good additions we could get into the top ten because we have a pretty good squad overall – my thoughts are that we dodged a bullet this season, we may have finished almost exact toy halfway up the division, but we felt much closer to the bottom six than the top half a dozen.

   Huw, with regard to youth, I keep on coming back to those articles I mentioned earlier from the Turkish press when Bulut was first appointed which also said that he likes to build teams where the player are in their late twenties and is not a great one for using young players. It’s encouraging to hear our manager say that he won’t be loaning out Cian Ashford next season, he’ll be part of the first team squad, but the man has got his way of managing and so I’m not expecting many league starts for Ashford next season – as for Rubin Colwill, Bulut brought a possible transfer into the conversation when asked about Colwill by the press and I think that would suit our manager down to the ground because it seems pretty clear that, despite Rubin being our best creative player through the second half of the season, he doesn’t trust him.

   Blue Bayou, although I don’t want our manager to stay, I accept that there are pretty strong grounds to keep him and I suspect that the problem currently is that Vincent Tan wants to give Erol Bulut another one year deal, while our manager wants longer than that, so I suspect that, whereas previously the suspicion was that Tan was dragging his feet, it’s more down to Bulut wanted the security of a longer deal.

   something else that I’ve written somewhere in the last couple of days is that, ordinarily, I would be all in favour of giving a manager who has taken City up nine places and gained them nine more points while scoring more goals, but the problem is I can’t stand the way he’s done it. This goes to the heart of something which I just don’t accept – those who defend our manager often argue that at the start of the season, the choice was dull, inflexible football and an improved finishing position or more attractive football and another relegation fight. That doesn’t have to be true, you don’t have to go into home games against the likes of Rotherham at home with nine outfield players who are primarilly serving a defensive purpose.(Siopis, Rolls and Wintle all started in that game – Colwill didn’t even get on the pitch!). I’ll finish by once again referring to something that Vince Alm said last night, he thought that City will finish a bit higher next year if Bulut stays and is given the backing to bring in two or three of his own choices, but he said that he believes any improvement will be because we will be able to carry out “Plan A” a bit better – he doesn’t expect the style of football to change if Built stays and neither do I.
7. Dai Woosnam says:

   May 7, 2024 at 6:58 pm

   STOP PRESS: NEEDED DESIDERATUM
   Even though he is a ‘play out from the back’ merchant, my advice to Vincent is get the services of LIAM ROSENIOR and offer him a four year contract.
   The boy has ‘got it’ in spades.
   Hull City will regret their foolishness.
   DW.
8. The other Bob Wilson says:

   May 8, 2024 at 7:42 am

   Agree Dai, I would say that I feel Hull under achieved slightly this season given how much they spent in January mind, but it’s still a ridiculous decision to sack Rosenior – I hope the Hull owners pay for their stupidity and I’d love to have him at this club.

   Wonder if Erol Bulut will be considered for the Hull job by their Turkish owners?
9. Dai Woosnam says:

   May 8, 2024 at 11:07 am

   Zinger of a last sentence from you. Loved your droll wit there, Paul.
   Personally, I wouldn’t wish his negativity even on the Swans.
   And before signing off, let me run by my theory to the MAYA community…
   I reckon that ‘Rosie’ was responsible for relegating Birmingham City. How come?
   … Well, he was the brains behind Derby’s heroic struggle against points deductions… yet the media gave Rooney the credit.
   And without ‘Rosie’ (as Hull fans universally call him here in my nearby town of residence, Grimsby), Rooney was quickly found wanting.
   What sayest thou to my theory, Paul?
   And incidentally what made your ‘Bulut for Hull’ joke so delicious, is that the owner says he wants a manager to play attacking football…!!
   Methinks the ‘play out from the back’ obsession of Liam’s proved his undoing. Too many almighty cock-ups with our ex goalie in a starring role.
   But I still would love him at Cardiff (maybe in the hope that he will eventually grow out of it?), because I just know he has real managerial chops… in the same way I feel about another manager whose style of ‘always building everything from the back’ is anathema to me, but is trumped by – as in Rosie’s case – an overwhelming desire to score goals. That man is Russell Martin.

   DW
10. The other Bob Wilson says:

    May 9, 2024 at 7:08 am

    My reference to Hull going for bulut was in the form of a plea Dai. Regarding Rosenior, Rooney and Derby, I’d say that what reputation Rooney has a manager currently is probably down to Derby’s relegation season when it looked for a while as if they might survive even with their big points deduction and it was pretty clear that Rosenior was the prime mover behind the way Derby were playing.

    The latest thinking regarding our manager is that he will be leaving and there’s a lot of the usual talk about the club being a shambles. Your opinion of Vincent Tan is a lot more complimentary than mine. However, while I think our owner has to share a degree of responsibility for the pretty farcical position whereby the manager situation is completely up in the air for a second consecutive year at a time when it should be full steam ahead in planning for the forthcoming campaign, Erol Bulut is also culpable to a degree because he has been talking about the managerial position to the media since at least January.

    I won’t see it as a disaster if we have to appoint a new manager for 24/25, but, based on previous form, I have a feeling that whoever takes over might be a disaster. I say that because there is no evidence whatsoever that `Mr Tan will opt to make football people responsible for the football side of things. We need a Director of Football, or its equivalent, and have done so for a decade and more, but, having had his fingers burned by the Mackay/Moody experience, our owner sticks to the belief that he and Messrs Dalman and Choo can do the job just as well.
11. Mike Hope says:

    May 10, 2024 at 12:33 am

    I have renewed my season ticket and await the new season with our team managed by either Erol Bulut or Vincent Tan’s latest choice.
    I will be 83 by the time the new season starts so what have I got to feel optimistic about!
    In fact l am looking forward to hearing that the club are seeking a new manager and Mr Bulut is being thanked for his services.
    It is not just that Bulut is too defensive as a coach I think that he is just not good enough to be a championship coach.
    We move the ball far too slowly with our players being comfortable on the ball only when the opposition gives them time and space .
    Opposition coaches now know this so we get no-hopers like Rotherham upping their game against us.
    And as for his development of young players—I think Dai Woosnam showed remarkable prescience,soon after he fell out of love with the cut of Bulut’s gib,when he said that Tanner would suffer under Bulut
    I recall the time when the Aussie fast bowler Jeff Thompson first came on the scene
    He was ultra fast with an unusual action.
    When asked about his action he said “I just run up take my arm back and go whang”
    An England cricket writer at the time said that if Thomson had been a young Englishman Alf Gover would have had him in the nets for a few months and he would have ended up playing for Hertfordshire!

    I don’t want to see our young talent being govered by Bulut.
12. Brian Andrews says:

    May 10, 2024 at 9:33 am

    Hello Paul and Everyone – I have not renewed my season ticket, which I may come to regret, but being closer to ninety than eighty, I will explain why.
    I am just about two metres tall and sat at the end of a row in the upper levels of the Grandstand. Level 4. The view was terrific. But my mobility is not what it was, and this last season I was constantly disturbed by the comings and goings whilst the match is taking place by the many who wished to lubricate themselves in the convenient lounge bar that served my position. They would arrive often just after the match had started, leave before half-time, sometimes returning well into the second half, sometimes not at all. And the reason – could it be the the football they were watching was wretched, surely not desperate for a drink. And by the way, these manoeuvres were not confined to just my row.
    When asked by the Ticketing staff if I was to renew my season ticket, I explained that I would not, and gave my reasons. I was offered another seat on Level 3, but at a cost of almost £1,000 more, I declined. I suspect with Sky announcing that they were to screen many more EFL matches next season, the City may not be lost to me, but it will never be the same.
    In my years of watching football, I have always had a second team, Ipswich Town. I often go on their website for news and this latest week, following their well deserved promotion, watched an interview with Mark Ashton, their Chief Executive, as to how they set about restoring their fortunes following the change of ownership some three years or so ago. In essence, it was all about having a plan. How I wish we had a plan.
    I acknowledge that the Llanrumney development is promising, and may well help the development of youngsters, but at first team level, or top down, something is lacking. Could it be that we have no real football people at our helm.
    Finally Paul, thanks so much for all your efforts once again over these past nine months. Enjoy your summer, and I look forward to reading your reviews once more when August comes around as they will surely be the most accurate from any of those who comment on proceedings.
13. Dai Woosnam says:

    May 10, 2024 at 10:51 am

    Mike, I salute you for that contribution.
    Back in the 1970s when I was ploughing up and down the South Circular Road selling wine, I used to regularly pass Alf Gover’s indoor cricket school in Wandsworth. And Mike’s evoking the name of that famous institution as an analogy, is a clever one.

    Of course, Alf unquestionably achieved some great things over many years, but as Mike suggests, when it came to cricketing equivalents of your Robin Friday or an Ollie Tanner, he had a reputation of coaching the maverick out of them… and as Mike deliciously suggests… these guys more often than not, ended up playing for the Minor Counties.
    DW
14. The other Bob Wilson says:

    May 11, 2024 at 7:34 am

    Sorry to hear that you won’t be renewing your season ticket Brian, but it’s completely understandable that you aren’t. There will be plenty who are decades away from having the sort of mobility problems that have influenced your decision who will be doing the same and, given the value for money they’ve received from their season ticket in the lat three years, who can blame them – our home record, which saw us lose as many as we won, may have been our best since 19/20, but at most other clubs in our division, it would have been recognised for what it was – mediocre with entertainment and good football at a premium.
    To develop Mike’s cricket analogy, around the time Aaron Ramsey was making his first team debut, a very young all rounder was breaking into the Glamorgan side and a great career was being predicted for him. James Harris took four wickets yesterday for Glamorgan as it turns out and has had a good, long career in the game, but it’s not been a s good as it looked like being as a seventeen year old. I can remember Harris ‘remodelling his action” with the backing of the England coaching staff because he was told it would give him the extra pace needed to get into the England side, but all that happened was that he lost his way at middlesex for a season or two and has been nowhere near the England side since.
    The great James Anderson, who looks like he’ll finally be retiring from test cricket this summer, went ‘back to basics” after the coaches had taken his career down a wrong turning – he had a classical, side on action that you would have thought a coach would love, but they had to tinker didn’t they.
    I watched the stream of the under 21 side’s last game of the season yesterday (they lost 4-3 to Hull) and, although the gap between the two has closed under Bulut compared to lots of other recent seasons, the first team is still playing a type of football that is at odds with what you see at age group levels.
    Although the fact that a few youngsters saw some first team action at a time when the season was, more or less, over is being hailed as some sort of breakthrough in terms of effective youth development at the club under Erol Bulut, I remain to be convinced that this is actually the case – what seemed like a desperation to get O’Dowda and McGuinness involved again even though their comeback would amount to nothing more than one game back was telling I thought, I for one don’t expect Ashford, Joel Colwill, Conte and Giles to be starting games in the Championship in the early part of the new season if Erol Bulut is still in charge.
    Regarding Ollie Tanner, ironically, his last few games at left back have made me more optimistic about him as this may be the exception which proves the rule about wrong decisions by managers and coaches. In typical Bulut fashion, Tanner began the season as an exciting einger and ended it as a defender, but, not helped by the defensive demands and criticism of his manager, Tanner lost his way as a winger as the season went on, only to end up looking far more of an attacking threat as a number three than he ever was as a number seven.after the home game against the jacks.
15. Dai Woosnam says:

    May 15, 2024 at 9:20 am

    Paul, compadre, and the MAYA community…
    I have to smile at readers of WalesOnline who are seemingly experts on maturity.

    What do I mean? I mean those folk who say that Aaron Ramsey is far too young to be made City boss. Do they not realise that at 33, he is only a year younger than Russell Martin was when he became a manager? And that he is only a year younger than Danny Rohl who has pulled off a miracle at Hillsborough?

    And even these guys are ‘late flowering’ when compared to current Germany national boss the 36 year old Julian Nagelsmann, who was just 28 when he took over as boss of Hoffenheim. And of course, much closer to home, our very own John Toshack was also just 28 when he took over the reins at Swansea, and in the next 4 years took them from the 4th tier, to very near the peak of the mountain… so much so that Bill Shankly called him the ‘manager of the century’.

    It is a sobering thought that Ramsey is exactly the same age now as Tosh was when he finished in 6th position in our top tier… after topping the forerunner of the Premier League several times that season.

    Do I think Ramsey has the qualities of Tosh? No, I don’t. But as I understand it, he is not on a contract based on his number of appearances, and therefore with him being so injury prone, it makes sense for Vincent not to waste his money on the ultra negative Bulut, but to get possible value out of Aaron instead.

    I would still far prefer Liam Rosenior, but he will have other suitors who will offer him more. Ramsey is a pragmatic middle course to adopt.

    TTFN,
    Dai.
16. The other Bob Wilson says:

    May 16, 2024 at 7:27 am

    Nothing to add to that Dai, I think you said it all.