Although I’ve not seen it reported anywhere else, Wikipedia is saying that former City player Graham Moore (the man who scored the fine goal that beat Aston Villa 1-0 on 16 April 1960 to send us into the old First Division) passed away on Tuesday.
Possibly prompted by the Wikipedia entry, there has been a thread posted on a City messageboard I use in memory of him.
I posted the following in the aforementioned thread;-
“He played a little too early for me to have seen him in action for us and my memories come more from him playing for Charlton against us in the late 60s when he forced his way back into the Welsh team.
However, the overriding impression I get from my seniors who did see him play for us is that he looked a tremendous prospect when he broke into our team as a teenager.
Before he has reached the age of twenty, Graham Moore had scored one of Cardiff City’s most important ever goals as well as finding the net for Wales against England.
I must admit I’ve always had a bit of a problem with reconciling those sort of comments with what happened in the rest of his career. True, he did play for Chelsea and Man United, but neither club were that powerful at the time and so it seems to me that the early promise he showed was never quite realised – I’d love people who saw him play to put me right on that view if you think I’m wrong.
I see from his Wikipedia entry that his time at Old Trafford was hampered by injury, did this hold back to the extent that he was never quite the same player again?
What cannot be denied though is that he was someone who will always have a place in Cardiff City’s History – RIP and condolences to his family and friends.”
and, as I mentioned, would appreciate some “education” on him from those on here who saw him play for us because I’m sure you can give him a much more fitting obituary than I can – I’ll integrate any replies I receive into this piece, rather than just keep it in the feedback section.
RIP.
A thank you to those readers who have posted their own tributes on here – here’s what they had to say;-
Obama Kelly says:
Sad to read this, another of the great Cardiff conveyor belt, that are never allowed to stay and make the Bluebirds great, RIP Graham.
Geoff Lewis says:
Hi Paul, I thought he was a centre forward. Watched him play many times for Cardiff and also his first game for Wales against England at Ninian Park. He was a very good player, good at heading the ball. The photograph of him with his Welsh colleagues brought back memories Dereck Sullivan and Ivor Allchurch ex Cardiff city players, I could name most of them, Jack Kelsey, Stuart Williams, Terry Medwin, Cliff Jones, Phil ? Woosnam.
Regards
Geoff
Richard Holt says:
Although I saw Moore play for City quite a few times during the 60/61 and 61/62 season I was just a bit too young then to give an accurate first hand account of his merits. What was interesting about Moore was that although he wore no 9 he was what was called in those days a ‘deep-lying centre-forward’ rather than the traditional no 9 that most teams used. I think Manchester City had used Don Revie in a similar role in the 50’s but it was quite advanced thinking by Bill Jones to use Moore in that way and it was a crucial element in the success of the 59/60 promotion winning team (as well as his famous goal of course). I know that when he was sold to Chelsea for £35,000 in December 1961 the reaction from City fans was not unlike the response to the sale of Toshack nine years later. By the time he was a fairly regular opponent for Northampton and Charlton in the late 60’s he had become a bit of a take-no prisoners midfield player having lost some of the subtlety that characterised his early career. ‘ Not the player he was’ I can remember my dad saying. Anyway it would be appropriate if his passing is marked in the match against Brighton next week – not least as it was against Brighton that Moore made his league debut in 1958, scoring in the last-minute to give City a 2-2 draw.
MIKE HOPEsays:
I was a great fan of G raham Moore and was saddened to hear of his death this week.
I saw most of his home games for us and some away.
Richard is correct in saying he played as a deep lying lying centre forward which was unusual in British football having first been seen in the great Hungarian side of the fifties.
He specialised in the nutmeg which used to infuriate defenders!
In those days we did not get so much information about injuries and their treatment was comparatively primitive but for whatever reason he did not fulfil his early promise.
To get some idea how highly rated he was-
1 He was signed from Chelsea by Matt Busby who spoke very highly of him and M.U were a major force at that time.They finished the 1963/64 season as runners up to Liverpool.
2.Before he started to get injury problems he was a regular starter in a five man forward line alongside some pretty good players called Bobby Charlton,Denis Law and a young George Best who was in his debut season.
When you consider the patience shown with someone like Sturridge at Liverpool it is a shame when a talent like G M’S was allowed to fade.
Information about his record at M U in the 1963/64 season is on Wikipedia where you will see his name alongside the other goalscorers
Richard
Colin Phillips says:
He was certainly a star at Cardiff City, probably overrated by some (including me) but he did score some very important goals both for club and country. When he went from Cardiff he basically went missing from my radar screen but I do remember seeing highlights of one of his Chelsea games and he did not look out of place in what was a young talented football-playing side. I can’t recall anything about his time at United or his later career.
Just very sad news to hear of the death of one of your heroes.
R.I.P Graham.
Dai Woosnam says:
Not well here in Malta.
Feeling worse now that a giant has gone.
Moore was quite magnificent.
Not more nothing did Chelsea sign him to replace the great Jimmy Greaves, and Busby to form a trinity with Law and Charlton…which with the arrival of boy wonder Best just months later would have been an immortal FOUR MARKSMEN OF THE OLD TRAFFORD PITCH (say it quickly) had not devaststing injuries not intervened….Hargreaves/Gammon style, so he was never the same again.
Dai Woosnam says:
As for anyone who thinks Moore was overrated…
Just look at the facts.
Jimmy Greaves was the greatest natural goal scorer I ever saw.
When he was sold to AC Milan, who did Chelsea immediately sign as their big name replacement?
Why…Graham of course…though Tommy Doc was at pains to say from the start, that they were players with totally different styles.
Now, memory plays tricks on one 55 years down the road, but I am almost certain that Graham’s debut came against an all-conquering Spurs side at White Hart Lane.
Chelsea lost something like 5-2…but both of their goals were stunners, and both scored by Moore. Thunderous shots from distance, Jamie Vardy against Liverpool style.
This was pre MotD remember, but both goals were so remarkable that they made the main BBC news that night !!
An extraordinary player blighted by injury (and I have a hunch, possibly succumbing also to La Dolce Vita…???)
Anyone who calls Graham Moore “overrated” should wash their mouth out with carbolic soap.
One of only four Cardiff players I have seen that could warrant the adjective “outstanding” (while wearing a City shirt that is…and having watched them for at least 2 seasons of home games).
Lots of very good ones…Willie Anderson, Gerry Hitchens, John Toshack, Don Murray, Trevor Ford, Alf Sherwood, John Buchanan, Peter Rodrigues, Steve Gammon, Mel Charles, Ian Gibson, Barrie Hole….etc… But only four outstanding ones…
Danny Malloy, John Charles, Ivor Allchurch and …
GRAHAM MOORE.
And if you do not want to take my word for it, that’s fine by me, folks.
What do I know about football, after all?
Instead I will refer you to three men who DID think him outstanding. And they knew a thing or two about this game.
Messrs …
Jimmy Murphy, Tommy Docherty and…
Sir Matt Busby.
I rest my case…and my pen.
Back now to the serious business of wrestling with the pains from hell, four weeks into my fight here in Malta.
DW.
Mike Herbert says:
| Dai Woosnam’s mention that a light has gone out at Bargoed YMCA with the passing of Graham Moore brought back memories of a Youth Cup game I played on their ground for Pontypridd YMCA in about 1963. Their ground was known as “The Basin” because – apart from a flat area of about 30 square yards in the middle – the rest of the field was about 10 feet above this. When we lost we had a ready made excuse – who could possibly play football on such a pitch! These comments were overheard by a local who quietly informed us that if it had been good enough for Graham Moore who were we to complain!
I remember Graham playing for Cardiff when initially he was hailed as “our new Trevor Ford” but when he later developed into a deep-lying centre forward I often wondered if this was inevitable as I imagined him spraying his passes from that central part of “the basin” where he had learnt his game and eschewing the sloping parts of the pitch. RIP Graham |
Sad to read this, another of the great Cardiff conveyor belt, that are never allowed to stay and make the Bluebirds great, RIP Graham
Hi Paul, I thought he was a centre forward. Watched him play many times for Cardiff and also his first game for Wales against England at Ninian Park. He was a very good player, good at heading the ball. The photograph of him with his Welsh colleagues brought back memories Dereck Sullivan and Ivor Allchurch ex Cardiff city players, I could name most of them, Jack Kelsey, Stuart Williams, Terry Medwin, Cliff Jones, Phil ? Woosnam.
Regards
Geoff
Although I saw Moore play for City quite a few times during the 60/61 and 61/62 season I was just a bit too young then to give an accurate first hand account of his merits. What was interesting about Moore was that although he wore no 9 he was what was called in those days a ‘deep-lying centre-forward’ rather than the traditional no 9 that most teams used. I think Manchester City had used Don Revie in a similar role in the 50’s but it was quite advanced thinking by Bill Jones to use Moore in that way and it was a crucial element in the success of the 59/60 promotion winning team (as well as his famous goal of course). I know that when he was sold to Chelsea for £35,000 in December 1961 the reaction from City fans was not unlike the response to the sale of Toshack nine years later. By the time he was a fairly regular opponent for Northampton and Charlton in the late 60’s he had become a bit of a take-no prisoners midfield player having lost some of the subtlety that characterised his early career. ‘ Not the player he was’ I can remember my dad saying. Anyway it would be appropriate if his passing is marked in the match against Brighton next week – not least as it was against Brighton that Moore made his league debut in 1958, scoring in the last-minute to give City a 2-2 draw.
I was a great fan of G raham Moore and was saddened to hear of his death this week.
I saw most of his home games for us and some away.
Richard is correct in saying he played as a deep lying lying centre forward which was unusual in British football having first been seen in the great Hungarian side of the fifties.
He specialised in the nutmeg which used to infuriate defenders!
In those days we did not get so much information about injuries and their treatment was comparatively primitive but for whatever reason he did not fulfil his early promise.
To get some idea how highly rated he was-
1 He was signed from Chelsea by Matt Busby who spoke very highly of him and M.U were a major force at that time.They finished the 1963/64 season as runners up to Liverpool.
2.Before he started to get injury problems he was a regular starter in a five man forward line alongside some pretty good players called Bobby Charlton,Denis Law and a young George Best who was in his debut season.
When you consider the patience shown with someone like Sturridge at Liverpool it is a shame when a talent like G M’S was allowed to fade.
Information about his record at M U in the 1963/64 season is on Wikipedia where you will see his name alongside the other goalscorers
Richard
He was certainly a star at Cardiff City, probably overrated by some (including me) but he did score some very important goals both for club and country. When he went from Cardiff he basically went missing from my radar screen but I do remember seeing highlights of one of his Chelsea games and he did not look out of place in what was a young talented football-playing side. I can’t recall anything about his time at United or his later career.
Just very sad news to hear of the death of one of your heroes.
R.I.P Graham.
Not well here in Malta.
Feeling worse now that a giant has gone.
Moore was quite magnificent.
Not more nothing did Chelsea sign him to replace the great Jimmy Greaves, and Busby to form a trinity with Law and Charlton…which with the arrival of boy wonder Best just months later would have been an immortal FOUR MARKSMEN OF THE OLD TRAFFORD PITCH (say it quickly) had not devaststing injuries not intervened….Hargreaves/Gammon style, so he was never the same again.
As for anyone who thinks Moore was overrated…
Just look at the facts.
Jimmy Greaves was the greatest natural goal scorer I ever saw.
When he was sold to AC Milan, who did Chelsea immediately sign as their big name replacement?
Why…Graham of course…though Tommy Doc was at pains to say from the start, that they were players with totally different styles.
Now, memory plays tricks on one 55 years down the road, but I am almost certain that Graham’s debut came against an all-conquering Spurs side at White Hart Lane.
Chelsea lost something like 5-2…but both of their goals were stunners, and both scored by Moore. Thunderous shots from distance, Jamie Vardy against Liverpool style.
This was pre MotD remember, but both goals were so remarkable that they made the main BBC news that night !!
An extraordinary player blighted by injury (and I have a hunch, possibly succumbing also to La Dolce Vita…???)
Anyone who calls Graham Moore “overrated” should wash their mouth out with carbolic soap.
One of only four Cardiff players I have seen that could warrant the adjective “outstanding” (while wearing a City shirt that is…and having watched them for at least 2 seasons of home games).
Lots of very good ones…Willie Anderson, Gerry Hitchens, John Toshack, Don Murray, Trevor Ford, Alf Sherwood, John Buchanan, Peter Rodrigues, Steve Gammon, Mel Charles, Ian Gibson, Barrie Hole….etc… But only four outstanding ones…
Danny Malloy, John Charles, Ivor Allchurch and …
GRAHAM MOORE.
And if you do not want to take my word for it, that’s fine by me, folks.
What do I know about football, after all?
Instead I will refer you to three men who DID think him outstanding. And they knew a thing or two about this game.
Messrs …
Jimmy Murphy, Tommy Docherty and…
Sir Matt Busby.
I rest my case…and my pen.
Back now to the serious business of wrestling with the pains from hell, four weeks into my fight here in Malta.
DW.
Paul,
I should have added that a light has gone out in Bargoed YMCA, with the death of their greatest footballing old boy.
And one thing that Mike commented on…your assertion that Chelsea and Man U were not the forces then they are today.
I do not blame you for thinking that…after all – being the mere youth you are – you had not seen your first City game in the winter of 61-62.
But trust me, as someone who saw his first City game in 1955, both were big big names back then.
Only 6 years previously, Chelsea had taken the Championship …i.e. the equivalent to winning the Premier League title today.
And as for Man Utd, one could argue that in some ways they were as big in England then, as they are now.
How come?
Well the events of Feb 6th, 1958, were the game-changer.
Overnight, the sympathies of everyone in Britain went to the club. The Busby Babes had been the best young team in the country, and were cut down before reaching their prime. So we all became Mancs overnight. (In a way that we are NOT all Mancs today.)
It was to be a few years before Sir Matt was to rebuild the team to sweep all before them, but they won the Cup a little over 18 months after Graham signed.
So they were both very big teams that wanted Graham Moore, alright.
DW.
There’s no denying that Manchester United were a very popular team in the early sixties Dai. My guess is that they were many people’s “second team” because of what happened in 1958 (both my parents were what I would call Manchester United supporters while I was growing up and they told me it was because of the Munich air crash). However, I was talking about their on field performance (and Chelsea’s) when I said that neither team were too powerful when Graham Moore played for them and, having checked, I must say the league tables from that period tend to back me me up.
Here are the finishing positions for the two clubs from the period in question;-
59/60 Man United 7th, Chelsea 18th
60/61 Man United 7th, Chelsea 12th
61/62 Man United 15th, Chelsea 22nd (the only team to finish below us in the First Division that season)
62/63 Man United 19th, Chelsea 2nd in Division 2 – this may have been the season when Man United won the FA Cup, but I can remember reading in autobiographies and biographies of personnel at the club at that time that they were in serious danger of relegation for much of that year.
Then in 63/64 there was a big improvement in both teams as United, with George Best emerging, were runners up to Liverpool and Tommy Docherty’s young Chelsea side finished fifth – in both intances, this signposted the way to them probably being among the top half dozen teams in the country for the rest of that decade.
Dai Woosnam’s mention that a light has gone out at Bargoed YMCA with the passing of Graham Moore brought back memories of a Youth Cup game I played on their ground for Pontypridd YMCA in about 1963. Their ground was known as “The Basin” because – apart from a flat area of about 30 square yards in the middle – the rest of the field was about 10 feet above this. When we lost we had a ready made excuse – who could possibly play football on such a pitch! These comments were overheard by a local who quietly informed us that if it had been good enough for Graham Moore who were we to complain!
I remember Graham playing for Cardiff when initially he was hailed as “our new Trevor Ford” but when he later developed into a deep-lying centre forward I often wondered if this was inevitable as I imagined him spraying his passes from that central part of “the basin” where he had learnt his game and eschewing the sloping parts of the pitch.
RIP Graham